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You’re probably already aware that I’m a big fan of this game, and you should be too. Take a look at the artwork and the miniatures and tell me you don’t want to know more! Well, know more you shall, because I recently had the pleasure of talking with Raybox Games’ designer Marco Pecota about a game that I think is the cat’s whiskers…
Let’s get the important stuff out of the way: name a part of history that should have been dominated by cats. You cannot choose this game’s theme. I wouldn't mind seeing Cave Cats. From a distance though: those kitties would be rough.
It would be really cool to see the cats in Feudal Japan, in the Roman Era, part of the Roman army. They could be in Egypt during the reign of the pharaohs.
Give us some background. Is this your first board game? If so, what did you do before this?
This is not my first board game. I used to make games back in the ‘90s, I made a game called Legions of Steel, and another game called Infernal Battles of the Abyss, and some role-playing games, some accessories. I had a company called Global Games at the time. I closed that game company down in 1997 and took a hiatus for 25 years. A few years ago I started getting back into designing games, the first of which was Escape From Stalingrad Z, and it uses the Paths Unknown system. Since that, there are three other games that are coming out (using the same system). One is Escape From Projekt Reise, there is Gates of Neilheim which has a Viking horror theme, and then we have The Cats of Mont Saint Michel which is in crowdfunding right now.
Between the stages (of the hiatus) I did many things. I worked on a horror genre magazine called Rue Morgue magazine which is still around and going strong, designed furniture, made movies.
What's the first board game you remember playing? And what's the first one you fell in love with, and why?
One of the first board games I played was Mouse Trap, where you move around the board and at one point the mouse gets trapped under the mechanism. But I can tell you that I really fell in love with games when I was thirteen at camp, when I was introduced to Dungeons and Dragons, I’d never heard of it before. My counsellors mentioned D&D and what it was all about, and I was enraptured by the description of how to play. When I got back home to Toronto after being at camp, my local hobby shop had just opened up its first club for Dungeons and Dragons. They had it on the shelves. When I’d left two weeks before there was nothing so it was a complete revolutionary change. I was the first one to join the club, I was number one, and that’s what really got me into loving games, playing RPGs and then getting into designing games.
Who’s on the team? How well does the team interweave together?
At Raybox Games it’s myself and Tom Frank. We work together throughout the design process. Tom does a lot of the development and writing. And then we have an expansive team of freelancers who do layout art, marketing, sales, from Julian Tooney in Argentina to Ricardo Federici in Southern France for cover art and interiors
There’s more than a dozen people when it comes to creating this type of game which is extensively narrative and story driven.
How long has it taken to develop The Cats of Mont Saint Michel? Has development slotted comfortably into your daily life?
I’m involved in The Cats of Mont Saint Michel every day, even on the weekends my wife complains! It took about six months to get it to our launch stage because the rules use the Paths Unknown system which already exists and I had previously designed three games around it, so that part was much faster. The system has been streamlined slightly and changed thematically. In its heart and soul, then, this is the Paths Unknown system but with its own unique aspects.
I love designing, so every day is amazing. It’s not fitting the game into my daily life, this is my daily life.
What’s the main inspiration behind The Cats of Mont Saint Michel? Which board games is it similar to? What kind of gamer would you recommend The Cats of Mont Saint Michel to?
I’d already created a couple of games – a World War II zombie game, a Viking horror game – and we were thinking of what to do next. Tom Frank came up with the idea, why don’t we do cats? I thought that would maybe be cool, and he elaborated further, said why don’t we do cats in Mont Saint Michel. He explained to me the history of it, where the monastery was under siege and they were trying to starve them out for whatever political reasons were going on in France at the time, but the monks had a granary nearby so they could sustain themselves for quite a while. But there were rats eating the grain, so as the story goes the cats killed the rats and basically saved the monks. That’s the nugget of where it came from.
I’ve made similar games previously with a small amount of space and a quick setup time. People have compared it to Mice and Mystics, which I haven’t played but, as I understand it, is a much simpler game, but people feel overall that The Cats of Mont Saint Michel has more tactics involved, so it is more interesting and challenging. Other than that, any other animal themed game will have similarities to this. It’s a much more compact game than anything out there right now. It’s literally the size of an open storybook, with a little bit extra space for your character sheets, so very, very compact. Aside from that, it would compare to Jaws of the Lion, Gloomhaven, or any other narrative-driven game, in a much smaller package but still brimming with story. If you play any of those tactical games with miniatures you’ll probably dig this, especially if you love cats.
Have there been any major hiccups during development, and if so how were they overcome? How has playtesting helped in this area?
No major hiccups, it’s gone pretty smoothly. We got the artist we wanted. When we reached out to Omar he loved the idea. Finding the artist can sometimes be difficult, so that was great. After that it was just putting the nose to the grindstone, working at connecting the rules thematically with the cats and the time in history. To me almost every day is Christmas, because a new miniature is being sculpted, a new piece of art is being completed, a new set of rules have been created, it’s always something great. It’s an amazing experience creating these games. Even when it’s tough it’s like a riddle, how do we figure it out, it’s not a bad thing.
Which is your favourite mechanic within the game?
My favourite mechanic in the game is how the movement works. It’s pretty unique. We wanted to create something thematic, so instead of just moving your figure on a square or a hex – move two spaces, move three or whatever – I decided to create three types of movement. One is prowling, one is striding and the third is pouncing. So, those are directly connected to the types of movement that cats do. I wanted people to feel like they’re really playing as cats. What’s my cat going to do, right?
There’s two types of squares. There’s a small square which is a one inch square, and there’s a big square made up of four smaller ones. When you’re prowling you can only move one small square, one you’re striding you can move one big square and place yourself anywhere you want in the big square, and when you’re pouncing you can move two (big squares) and at the end of the two you can make an automatic attack. However you’re also vulnerable at that point if the enemy attacks you during that turn. These aspects really make you think (during play) how do I want to do this?
This is becoming a bit of a hot topic. What’s your thoughts on AI in game design? This doesn’t apply directly to your game as you have an artist with a distinct human style, but there are games out there which are heading to crowdfunding that seem to rely on it heavily. Is there room for AI in game design? Is there a limit to its acceptable use?
There’s no AI use in The Cats of Mont Saint Michel. I know it’s a hot topic but I don’t think about it much. I just focus on what I’m doing. I work with artists that create real art. Whether or not we would use AI art in the future? I don’t think so. Perhaps I would feed AI my game design and ask what can be improved, and maybe there would be a suggestion that was useful. But I’m happy doing things the way I’m doing them now.
The Cats of Mont Saint Michel is a story-driven campaign game. Was this borne out of the exploration theme, or was it always your intention to go this route?
A story-driven campaign was always my intention. In fact the three previous games are that way, so this has followed suit as it is also made in the Paths Unknown system. I love telling stories. All games tell stories, even those that aren’t story-driven, because when you’re playing with your friends there’s always a story that comes out at the end, like how someone won at the last minute, or stole your gold or whatever.
What do you play in your spare time between sessions?
I’ve started playing games again, because when I’ve been designing I’ve not played so much. A few of the games I’ve played are Maximum Apocalypse, Pandemic Legacy, Warfighter, In Too Deep, and also my own Stalingrad Z, Projekt Reisse, and Gates of Niflheim.
Which one game do you wish you'd designed yourself?
I don’t think that way. I’m designing games every day, so I wouldn’t have time to design any more! Tom and I have the schedule set for the next four years for game design, so I never really think about, ‘Oh what if I designed that game?’ I don’t need to design anything else, and don’t wish that I had.
What advice would you give to other prospective designers? What advice would you give to yourself after a spot of time travelling?
The first thing about game design is try to design a game around something you love and you know about, Secondly, I think thematically you need to go niche. There’s a certain point where it’s too narrow, but as an indie you should take a narrow focus. For me, World War II zombies is a pretty narrow focus: you’ve got to be into World War II and you’ve got to be into zombies.
What that means is that you find your crowd. Those crowds of those niche things are usually very vocal. Don’t just do high fantasy. Do something interesting and weird. If you’re going to do fantasy, do something about a lesser race and what their trials and tribulations are. Don’t do dwarves. Don’t do elves. Those have been done to death. Do something someone else hasn’t done. Why not? I want to know how lizardmen live. How do they survive, do they fight amongst each other? When they are building near water, how do they do it, what materials have they got to use?
When it comes to marketing, start early. Show off your game, tell people about it, go on Facebook, share what you’re working on, let as many people know as possible. Expose your game to everyone and let them see what you’re doing. Create a journal to mark your path and share that with people too, they love that. Be prepared to invest a little bit of money into the longer term, advertising, get some art done. The better your art, the better chance you have of getting attention. Art is not only good for the game, it’s a marketing tool.
How has the support been from the board gaming community?
The support has been amazing. I find it’s the best industry I’ve been in as far as support is concerned and people being encouraging. I’ve been in the film business, I’ve been in the industrial design business, the magazine business, but the board game fans are exceptional. Everyone wants to help. It’s practically a level playing field. Regardless of what point you’re at in your path, in creating a game, people always have good advice and offer to help you out.
How does it feel to finally launch?
It’s always nerve-wracking! It feels great now (at this point the game was closing in on $300.000 funding), the game is doing amazing, it’s the best crowdfunding campaign we’ve done to date. We have distributors and licensors interested in translating The Cats of Mont Saint Michel into Chinese, French, German, Spanish, Italian. This means the game will do better even after the campaign has finished and will be propelled into more stores. It will be more widely available, which is great.
We'll finish on another vital question. A cat challenges you to a duel. What do you do? (There is a correct answer to this.)
I would take the closest fluff ball and throw it in a direction away from me and the cat will follow that! If I don’t have that, what would I do? You’re in a dire situation if you haven’t got a fluff ball or something you can toss that will attract their attention! Any way you can distract a cat that wants to duel you, that’s what you want to do.
(This is almost correct. Always carry a laser pen. Always.)
As of the time of writing, The Cats of Mont Saint Michel is in the final days of its crowdfunding campaign, so go there right now to get hold of something unique. If you’re a cat fan, you’re most likely already there: The Cats of Mont Saint Michel by Raybox Games - Gamefound